Wednesday, April 05, 2006

Addendum to the Real Housewives...

ADDENDUM: Judging by my Sitemeter, a lot of people have been through here today and a lot of you I recognize as women I "know". Is this a touchy subject? Or a hot button issue? It doesn't seem like it to me. I'm honestly surprised that more people don't have an opinion or a thought to share on the subject. As women, this is a topic that affects all of us. I'm not asking for you to agree with me. I guess I'd be interested to know where you stand on what I call "hyper-feminine ideals". Do you think they are harmless? Do you think they do, indeed, affect society negatively? Please share.

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Yes, I'm being extremely judgemental in the post below this one. I admit it. It started off as kind of amusing but the more I think about it, the more it all bugs me.

The reason I hate that level of superficiality so much is not because I want to deny someone the experience of having the rack they've always dreamed of. It's because it raises the bar for everyone, even those of us who would never get implants (because it's kind of weird and gross if you look at it for what it actually is...stuffing your chest with plastic bags of water or silicone). Don't get me wrong. If there was a way to improve what nature gave me (and then took away via breastfeeding) that didn't involve invasive implants, maybe I'd do it, too.

My real issue is with hyper-feminine ideals that don't exist in nature. You can't just firm up your breasts or go a tad larger. No...you have to get these melon halves that make you look like a comic book character and this is embraced as something preferable to a real, honest-to-God breast by almost everyone, it seems. Fake is better. Does that not seem f-ed up to a certain degree? It's not the individuals with the implants that bother me so much. I mean we all want to be attractive, right? It's the effect it has on society as a whole that I find problematic.

As noted in the original post below this one, young men these days may be disappointed to see a real boob. It doesn't look anything like what they are presented with on TV, in movies, video games, or in porn. I think it's kind of sad.

I shudder to think what the world will be like when my daughter is grown up. Will being a mere flesh and blood human being even be acceptable? Will "good" DNA trump "bad" DNA? Will plastic surgery be done on children so they never have to suffer a moment with having an imperfect feature?

It sounds outlandish and unimaginable, I agree. But there was a time when not wearing a corset was unthinkable. And women voting? Ludicrous. It'll never happen, they said.

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Edited to add: I'd like to reiterate...my gripe is with a society/media machine that has promoted a totally unnatural image of a woman as an ideal. This current ideal is one that is rarely bestowed up any woman naturally, thus necessitating a surgical procedure to attain it. The idea that something fake is better than something real is IMO, twisted. I'm not opposed to improvements. I'm opposed to something real being replaced by something totally unreal and having that be the standard women are supposed to aspire to. It sets all of us up for failure.

posted by IzzyMom at

42 Comments:

  • I didn't read the post below yet but I agree with you on the fake booby issue. I prefer real ones, although I do envy the perkiness you get with implants. Off to read the other post ...

    By Blogger Stacy, at 4/05/2006 03:06:00 PM  

  • I personally feel it's OK for a woman to get implants, if she is doing it for the right reasons, and they aren't gigantic. For a long time, I felt the same as you. Then, several women I admire who are grounded, caring, wonderful human beings got implants. It didn't change my opinion of them in the least, probably because they didn't flaunt their newfound "assets" Maybe it's because they are not overdone. One might look at them and think "She looks great" but not be able to put their finger on WHY...

    By Blogger The Domesticator, at 4/05/2006 03:29:00 PM  

  • Stick to your guns (no pun intended), and keep it real (no pun intended again). I thought your post was amusing and shows like that entertain me. Although I haven't seen the show, I would laugh and then feel sorry for the participants. There is so much more in life then that. Some people are just shallow....

    The need for implants is subjective, just like men buying Hummers. Do they really need that much car to drive to the golf course?????

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4/05/2006 04:02:00 PM  

  • I really prefer a more natural look too.

    Although, here I am planning on having plastic surgery, get this... a BREAST REDUCTION AND LIFT (no implants, thank you!) tummy tuck and lipo... because three kids and breastfeeding two of them is like, uh, hell on your bod!

    I doubt any of the women you mentioned in your previous post have any of those problems though.

    I actually read where Barbara Streisand said that she was really thankful she didn't breastfeed her son because now she can go about bra-less if she wants to. I bet she was just a stellar mom, don't you?

    By Blogger Amy, at 4/05/2006 04:32:00 PM  

  • It perpetuates the myths of womanhood and motherhood that screw us in the butt in the end.

    Fine if you (collective, not YOU) want breast implants - but why are you doing it? Is it really for you?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4/05/2006 04:33:00 PM  

  • J's Mommy -- Yeah, I envy the perkiness, too. Nature is a cruel mistress...

    Domesticator -- I don't have a problem with the implants or their owners so much as I do the over-the-top ideals they have helped to create. And of course, even nice people get implants. I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

    Ed -- Good Hummer analogy and thank you for understanding my viewpoint.

    Amy -- Good for you. If I could afford to tighten up this bod after kids, I'd at least consider it. I do think that's somewhat different than perpetuating the hyperfeminine ideal that I referred to.

    Kristen -- I couldn't have said it better myself.

    By Blogger IzzyMom, at 4/05/2006 04:59:00 PM  

  • What ever happened to getting old gracefully? Have you seen Priscilla Presley lately? It's scary. I know it really bites to start sagging (face,boobs, butt), it has to happen to us all. Our culture is so youth oriented and even being young isn't enough, you have to be skinny and have great hair and big boobs! I'm not immune to this shit and that's why I'm complaining about it. You know what really drives me crazy is when they sell wrinkle cream with a 20 year old in the commercial, like we're that stupid. Okay, I feel like I'm ranting now, but I feel this is a much needed topic for women to discuss and I think the key word in your post is "hyper". It's all gone so over the top. What if everyone cared about what's on the inside half as much?

    By Blogger Marcie, at 4/05/2006 06:24:00 PM  

  • I feel pretty strongly about implants, and I can't imagine every getting them. ON the other hand, I CAN see getting a lift, so maybe I'm a hypocrite.
    Maybe it's just a personality thing, similar to that whole false advertising wahoowa--some people are more visual than others. SOme people care about appearances more than others.
    Personally, I admit it: when I see implants (and here in LA, I see them alot) I think they are lame, and I think a lot less of the person who has them.

    By Blogger Piece of Work, at 4/05/2006 06:31:00 PM  

  • We could get into the whole thing that society tells women -

    "When you get old, you're ugly and worthless. If you're an old man, you are hot and distinguished."

    It's ridiculous how badly hollywood (and the media) have infiltrated our brains about this. I think it's great to take care of yourself and your body, get some face peels, nice teeth, etc. but to stretch your face out like a piece o' rubber and add fake-ass tatas that look like big volleyballs just doesn't make sense and quite frankly, it doesn't look good.

    Done.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4/05/2006 06:35:00 PM  

  • I respect that a woman's body is her own and she has a right to make whatever choices about it that she needs to.

    However, I am totally 100% right there with you about the systemic issue surrounding the mass glamourization of plastic surgery and the unrealistic image it presents. Makes me crazy really. My formerly perky boobs are a distant memory post-breastfeeding and there is a really vain part of me that can see why someone would get breast implants but that is only because I have come to subconsiously believe (through media, whatever) that my saggy sacks don't measure up to the artificial melons.

    We've got a big job to do as moms!

    By Blogger Sandra, at 4/05/2006 06:42:00 PM  

  • OK, I wasn't going to comment again, but since you are encouraging discussion...

    When I read Naomi Wolf's book called The Beauty Myth I became such an angry mutherfucker that I couldn't even deal with myself. Everywhere I looked, everything everyone said, all reinforced my anger.

    When I found Jean Kilbourne and watched her documentary Killing Us Softly about the portrayl of women in advertising, again, I felt so angry I couldn't even deal with it. Every commercial I saw pained me, every ad, every magazine.

    I tend not to comment on stuff that I feel stronly about in the blog world.

    You have no idea how happy I was that you took that Bratz doll and got rid of it.

    I cry when I think about the shit little girls are raised with. Being sexualized so young...

    But see, this is why I refrain from commenting- because I end up sounding like a lunatic- and really, I am not one. I'm just someone who feels things deeply, and I don't always think it's best for me to put that out there.

    I appreciate your post, and your encouragment of discussion.

    By Blogger The Silent K, at 4/05/2006 06:50:00 PM  

  • I don't watch that show - nor many like it.

    I try to be very concientious about the image I give my daughter. I try not to discuss my weight in front of her - or use the word "fat". Cause she is listening - hard, and catches me when I say those things.

    Now, once she is an adult, I do feel that she has the right to elective surgery if she desires it - but my hope is that the reasons she would seek that option would be entirely personal and not dependant on a man ( or womans) opinion.

    I do think the BEST example for young girls are mothers who are at peace with their bodies.

    By Blogger Dawn, at 4/05/2006 07:21:00 PM  

  • Dawn -- I agree wholeheartedly. I do not discuss weight, being fat or my postpartum body image issues around my daughter. During the rare moments that she watches commercial television, I flip the channel when a weight loss commercial come on. We only discuss being healthy and eating healthy food. Ever.

    I think that's the reason I vent so much about my less than ideal body image...because I never talk about it with anyone in real life, for my daughter's sake.

    By Blogger IzzyMom, at 4/05/2006 07:38:00 PM  

  • See, I can easily say hey, it's your body... because it will come back to bite you in the end with some of these procedures.

    One plastic surgeon I heard talking bout implants said the chance of bad results is high even with a skilled surgeon, because the body reacts unpredictably, encapsulating them into hard, awkward-looking lumps, pointing them in different directions, etc. He also said that it's not so much a question of "IF" they will rupture, but "WHEN." Not something I'd be signing up for.

    Likewise all those horrible wind-tunnel facelifts. I don't want to end up looking shrink-wrapped. And again, results are hard to predict, even with high-end surgeons. Look at some Park Ave. and Hollywood atrocities! ooh, go look at awfulplasticsurgery.com (I'm not kidding, either.) Saggy is a WAY better look!

    By Blogger kittenpie, at 4/05/2006 07:47:00 PM  

  • Krista -- I would never fault you for strongly expressing yourself on this topic. I think more women should.I feel very much the same way. I have made references to the media and the effect it has on women/society many times. It's definitely worth discussing in depth.

    Marcie --Priscilla Presley is almost unrecognizable. Scary... And yes, advertising is ridiculous. I want to get TIVO just so I don't have to watch any more of it.

    POW -- I've never been to LA but I have a friend that lives there. An aspiring actress, she is several years younger than me. The stuff she told me about how it is there blew me away. I can't imagine... although it's pretty bad in Florida, too.

    Sunshine -- We DO have a big job to do as mothers and not just those of us raising daughters. I think those raising sons can help a lot, too by helping them to understand what is real and what isn't and to show them what makes a woman who she is (i.e. not just her body parts)

    Kristen -- Infiltrated...what a great way of putting it.

    By Blogger IzzyMom, at 4/05/2006 07:50:00 PM  

  • Kittenpie -- You're right. I actually have APS on my Blogroll because it's a great reality check. And guilty pleasure fun, too, I suppose

    By Blogger IzzyMom, at 4/05/2006 08:52:00 PM  

  • I must admit I am a semi-vain person. I haven't had anything done, but if I had the money I would. Not implants, but just improving on what I already have, like a lift or something.

    Come visit me tomorrow :)

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4/05/2006 08:55:00 PM  

  • I guess my problem with the implants is that it makes women less themselves and more a Thing. I mean, you have these plastic Things in you, so now you are part not-you and you are part Thing.

    I can see breast reconstructive surgery because having one breast affects the way you move, your balance and for emotional health reasons you may not want to advertise your breast cancer status to everyone with an obvious one-breasted look.

    We all make our choices. You can support a woman toward becoming financially independent in a third-world country for $25 a month through Women for Women International. How many women could a boob job support for a year? That's what I think when I see someone who has obvious plastic surgery, or who drives an ostentatious car. But I'm a raving liberal do-gooder.

    By Blogger SUEB0B, at 4/05/2006 09:00:00 PM  

  • I won't say anything new I'm sure (don't have time to read everyone's responses, but in browsing them, they're all GOOD), but this is precisely why I don't:
    a) watch those ridiculous shows
    b) try to live to the standard set by the asinine 'reality' shows
    c) purchase or read women's magazines. Any of them. Not even good housekeeping. It seems they are all designed to make me feel inadequate, and life does that very well on its own, thank you very much.

    With that said, I have to make myself sound contradictory by saying that I don't blame women at ALL for wanting surgery. Everywhere you look, we're told our value is tied up in it and too many women feel valueless and empty. If it makes them happy for this season in their lives, then so be it.

    By Blogger Mocha, at 4/05/2006 09:10:00 PM  

  • Mocha -- I agree with you about magazines and TV etc. I make a conscious effort to "filter" out as much of it as I can and I'm constantly talking to my daughter about how the value of a human being is not tied up in things such as how they look or what kind of clothes they wear etc. It's really hard to remember that when the media is always telling you otherwise. Thanks for coming by!

    By Blogger IzzyMom, at 4/05/2006 09:17:00 PM  

  • Yes. Thank you.

    By Blogger Rachel Starr Thomson, at 4/05/2006 09:51:00 PM  

  • It scares me that so many people have plastic surgery in order to look more abnormal. I'd have no problem with a woman getting implants to help her look more "feminine", but getting implants to have a 36 F chest that doesn't jiggle when you jump is crazy. It promotes an unnatural form of beauty that cannot be obtained without surgery.

    Had I an unlimited amount of money, I might want to have some plastic surgery done. But it would be very minor - mostly just a tummy tuck to get rid of a lot of loose skin I have from when I weighed more. You know, surgery to help me look closer to "normal".

    I'm really shocked at how far the beauty industry has gone. I find the natural female form, curves, lumps and all, to be beautiful. Why must we strive to look like teen boys with melons under our shirts?

    By Blogger Christina, at 4/05/2006 10:12:00 PM  

  • I would have commented earlier but have been in work hell until this very moment and wouldntcha know yours is the first blog I went to...

    I'm always up for some deep thinking on shallow people. If I look deep inside myself, I can honestly tell you that it all bothers me a little more since my body became less than "all that." So perhaps there's a little envy there.

    But my real issue is that it teaches our daughters to see their bodies not as something to be loved and adored and taken care of, but something to hate and to try and fix...mainly for men. This cannot be a good thing. I have less of a problem with silicone boobage and more issues with eating disorders and abusive relationships stemming from low-self esteem.

    I'm lucky to have found a partner whose pov on my new less-than-perky breasts is, "but um...they're still boobs, aren't they?" I wouldn't have settled for anyone less. I credit my mom and her own imperfections--and love and acceptance of them--for that.

    By Blogger Mom101, at 4/05/2006 10:24:00 PM  

  • Hi-

    I linked here from MegaMom... great post! I live in "The OC" (Laguna Beach) and there are a lot of fake boobs bobbing around... however, the only time I get "upset" is when I find out someone's husband has been the driving force behind the implants... that just drives me nuts!

    By Blogger Kristin, at 4/05/2006 10:52:00 PM  

  • in my opinion, there's never a "right" reason for a woman to get implants. UNLESS it is reconstructive surgery. do i look down on people who get them? honestly, a little. not because of the potential impact they have on women as a whole, but because the women who get them are doing so to form themselves to a male ideal. i don't get it. i think it's sad. do i suffer from this whole "male ideal" image thing? i don't think so. i want to be thinner beause i feel better that way. i just want to have a waist again. saggy boobs, droopy ass, they're mine! the proof of a life being lived. as far as those shows go - i don't waste the brain cells on them.

    By Blogger noncommon, at 4/05/2006 11:22:00 PM  

  • A friend of a friend got a boob job done because her husband wanted her to have bigger boobs. So she had them done as her "birthday present" to him. I felt that was an EXTREMELY generous birthday present. And then the guy had the audacity to tell my husband that they were smaller than he expected they would be(the new boobs that is). Like he was STILL disappointed in her breast size. UGH!!

    So, do I think that booby implants are lame? What I think is lame is that women are often made to feel that we need bigger boobs, smaller boobs, straighter hair, curlier hair, lighter skin, darker skin, etc. etc. etc. in order to be pretty, attractive, worthy. F-that. I am perfectly happy with my B cups and the rest of my not-so-perfect bod thank you.

    By Blogger Cristina, at 4/06/2006 12:14:00 AM  

  • Get on with your bad self! Personally I hate the image of the "perfect woman" that is portrayed in the media. I believe now, more than ever, women/girls are expected to be brainless, ageless, fake, and emaciated. The pressure is disgusting. Look at the role models for today's young girl: Brittany Spears, Paris Hilton, Lyndsay Lohan, good God could it get any scarier? Fake boobs are just one more nail in the coffin of the healthy, smart, confident woman.

    As corny as it sounds, us mamas need to squash this. We are raising the future. We need to show that we are happy with whatever we got (tiny boobies and all). I grew up with a ma that hated what she looked like and talked about it daily. I grew up hating who I saw in the mirror and vowed to stop the cycle. I am still working on it, I think I have come a long way and I promise that my offspring will never catch me self-hating. I will never surgically "enhance" who I am, the only type of enhancement I plan on partaking in is the kind that involves my brain.

    By Blogger Bridgermama, at 4/06/2006 02:16:00 AM  

  • I say to each their own. Personally, I would not get them because I don't have a problem with certain natural changes to my body that comes with age. But if I was born flat-chested I could not say the same. I would not go for the unnatural look, however.
    Cosmetic surgery is something I'm considering in other areas (an eye brow lift, to be exact) and it stems from just wanting to feel better about myself. I hope that is why the majority of women get implants and not because of the pressure from society to be sexy and "perfect."

    By Blogger Kristi, at 4/06/2006 02:54:00 AM  

  • You need to move way up here. I don't know anyone with implants. I do however know several women who have had breast reductions.

    We have enough pressures in our lives than to fall prey to some unreal beauty perfection standard. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Sorry to sound like a cliché but it's true that you got to love yourself inside and out. We should start with the inside to radiate that sparkling glow.

    Oh my god it's too late. I need to get some sleep.

    By Blogger ms blue, at 4/06/2006 04:36:00 AM  

  • Implants are weird, but that's not why I stopped by again. Thanks for visiting my little blog. I had no idea we lived in the same city. Judging from your 100 things list, we may even live in the same neighborhood. Just don't walk to my house. You know what they do to pedestrians in this town! I would have emailed you but I couldn't find it. Email me sometime -- maybe we can meet on this coast prior to BlogHer on the West Coast.

    By Blogger Wendy Boucher, at 4/06/2006 07:48:00 AM  

  • Hi Izzy,
    I didn't think you were implying that women who get implants aren't nice... :)
    This was a GREAT post. It forced me to really think "how do I feel about the hyper-feminine ideal?" I WANT to say what many other women are saying above...I don't necessarily disagree with most of them. I do agree that it IS a problem if a woman is altering herself to either please someone else, or to live up to an image that is constantly being thrown in all our faces. However, I still think if someone is doing it because it makes her feel more confident, then I don't think others should judge that. This was a great topic. Thanks for the excellent post!

    By Blogger The Domesticator, at 4/06/2006 01:59:00 PM  

  • (in response to your response to my comment - LOL)

    I agree with you 100% The point I was trying to make was that, in a world where there are a lot of people wanting to go UP in cup size (For what reason I have NO idea. I've watched Dr. 90210 and some of these women are just plain loony, I'd kill to look like they do PRE-plastic surgery, you know?) I think that there are a lot of people out there with incredibly LOW self-esteem who are willing to do ANYTHING to make something on the INSIDE feel better.

    And, that is a broad generalization that doesn't apply to everyone, I know, but that is definitely the majority of the examples that are shown on television.

    But, while I agree with you, and implants certainly are not for me... I also have to think, "Oh well, it's their body and not my business."

    LOL

    By Blogger Amy, at 4/06/2006 02:26:00 PM  

  • OK, everyone else has already commened my thoughts, only much better than I could have ever put them into words, but I still wanted to comment a little more.

    I couldn't agree more with much of what you said. Having two daughters it terrifies me to think about what society expects them to be as they grow.

    I read somewhere that eating disorders are now getting younger and younger...and the story I read was about an EIGHT YEAR OLD girl who had starved herslf into near death. Its horrible...

    OK...I talked myself into a dead end, and now can't finish my thought...LOL
    [clapping hands] Good post, good post.

    By Blogger Emily, at 4/06/2006 02:42:00 PM  

  • Echoing a lot of the sentiment here, I am concentrating on raising my two daughters in an overly-body concious society. Not easy. As Dawn mentioned, I am extremely careful not to say things around them that would perpetuate a negative body. (Again, not easy since those thoughts scream at me everytime I take another bite of that muffin.)

    On the upside, I think it's working. They have renounced Britney Spears, all things Barbie and think that Lindsay Lohan and her ilk are all 'waaaay too skinny.' So there.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4/06/2006 04:10:00 PM  

  • I needed to watch one of the first episodes of that show that I had TiVo'd before I could respond...

    Holy Crap! Who came up with that premise?

    As a once small-breasted woman (before the kid came along and probably again in the not-too distant future) I had imagined life with implants. Would it make me popular with the boys? Would I stop feeling like such an ugly duckling? Then I came to my senses and met a man who loved me for my butt!

    I feel a bit sorry for those women and I don't know if that was the aim of this show or not.

    By Blogger Chicky Chicky Baby, at 4/06/2006 04:23:00 PM  

  • Iz, I didn't comment because I honestly don't think about this topic very much. I don't think I would do it, even if I had the time and the money. The risk is not worth it, and frankly I'm at peace with my body. Does it look like it did in college, or even before I had Tacy? No. It's not GOING to. That's called AGING.

    By Blogger Julie Marsh, at 4/06/2006 05:13:00 PM  

  • Hmm... not too many male opinions here, so here's my view: I dislike fake people, fake tans, and fake boobs.

    Just like the guy with a Hummer, silicon implants are like a big sign saying "Look at me! I'm insecure and need to be validated by others!"

    Plus, if you go into orbit, they might explode.

    By Blogger Dread Pirate Robert, at 4/06/2006 06:19:00 PM  

  • One last thing--I want a Hummer, what does that say about a woman? Should I rethink?

    By Blogger Kristi, at 4/06/2006 07:50:00 PM  

  • What Dawn said. And Mom-101. And Sue.

    Great topic, and great minds weighing in (no pun intended, seriously) on it.

    By Blogger the stefanie formerly known as stefanierj, at 4/06/2006 08:57:00 PM  

  • Thank you all for sharing your thoughts on this topic.

    As I noted in my comment to Dawn, I don't discuss any of my body image issues around my daughter. Period.

    But I do think as mothers, we owe it to our children to keep this general dialogue out in the open.

    As one of you said, eating disorders and body image issues are more prevalent than ever (in both girls AND boys).

    I feel very fortunate to be surrounded by such intelligent, astute and compassionate women (and men) who all have such great, thought-provoking things to say.

    If you have already commented here, please feel free to take this topic to your own blogs and put your own spin on it I know there are so many more people out there who haven't been privy to this discussion but would have something worthwhile to add. The more people thinking and talking about it, the better.

    (link back here so people can read all these great comments)

    Again, thanks to all.

    By Blogger IzzyMom, at 4/06/2006 09:59:00 PM  

  • I'm late, AGAIN. Crazy week here in mommaammme land...

    I subscribe to the "to each his own" philosophy for adults, although I personally would not have cosmetic surgery or inject anything to alter my appearance. I want to learn to age gracefully, and to care for my body in a natural way to look the best I can. The most extreme cosmetic alteration that I subscribe to is highlights/hair coloring.

    My biggest concern about the preponderance of people altering their appearance by "unnatural" means (i.e., other than diet, exercise, and other on-the-surface cosmetic changes) is the message it sends to our youth. Like Dawn and others, I really want to make sure my girls have a positive body image, because there's so many images that they will be subjected to in the media and elsewhere that will show them that they must have Barbie-perfect boobs, Bratz-like pouty lips, etc. I am concerned that although many of us laugh at shows like The Real Housewives and Laguna Beach, there are young, impressionable girls saying, "Oh, my body's not as nice as theirs, I need to change it somehow."

    It scares me that girls are getting nose jobs and boob jobs for their high school graduation gifts. As a parent, I could not in clear conscience EVER agree to that.

    Ugh. I'm getting fired up now. ;-)

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4/07/2006 09:42:00 AM  

  • I must say, I love your sense of humor in your writing. You're a very enjoyable read. As for the Real Housewives of OC, love it. You're right it's like watching aliens. I'm fascinated with ideals so foreign to my own. I'm always trying to relate to people and when I get to the point of understanding these women and their ideals, I feel such an emptiness. These women have backed themselves into corners. They've embraced the idea that this is all they can be.

    By Blogger Bamboo Lemur Boys Are Mean To Their Girls, at 4/10/2006 08:44:00 AM  

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